>> what i would like to do now is really for many people who are not around or participating in the events that are seared into our minds, i want to bring

up a visual representation from the aftermath of the mission, as particularly it goes through just to remind ourselves of the experiences that happened with the columbia accident, and, you know, i just think that putting images on some of the words that we will talk about later today. this is about a half-hour video. [inaudible] >> this is the commentary part.

>> all of our astronauts are not suited . the astronauts are coming out and they are making their way to the space shuttle. [inaudible] we are in process of conducting the checks. >> four, three, two, one -- lift

off for the space shuttle columbia. new progress in international space research. the research mission is finally underway for the mission. [inaudible] thirty seconds into the flight. three look at those. it is breaking through the sound barrier. [inaudible] >> i think many of us recognize those images.

[silence during video] >> we are working around the clock. here is dave brown working where there are some observations being looked at. we are looking at the mediterranean and certainly we have a great picture here of the sinai peninsula and the upper left part of the screen, zooming into israel here, on this picture you can see the dead sea to the right. just about in the center is where jerusalem is located.

>> here comes the superman entry of the astronaut from israel. and we have done such a fantastic job appear, it is such a great thing and you can see him doing a nice little pair let, and it's time to have a snack that he brought up. the fact that we are in microgravity whippings floating like they do makes eating a whole different experience.

>> the first time that i got to see the orbiter and the sun set or rise, it was a beautiful rose color and orange color and it only last for about 15 seconds and then it was gone. it was scary yet extremely beautiful and unexpected. i haven't heard about that before. the other oh, wow -- incredible science in and of itself. anyone who knows me knows how much i love plants and animals. it was really exciting and one day the roses had opened up in full bloom's and we did some

work and we talked about one of the silkworms and the cocoons had just hatched. it had its wings starting to come up so that it would be able to fly. one day i was in the flight deck looking from the overhead windows outside. >> you can still see the surface overhead.

>> i called all of the members one by one and everybody said that oh, wow, that is beautiful. >> would you like the whole thing were just a candy? >> we talked about the whole thing. [inaudible]

>> i may not want the camera back? is that right? >> you may not want it back. replug it, that is all you have to do. >> okay. >> [inaudible] [inaudible] >> okay, i just turn towards you. i understand.

[laughter] okay. >> okay i'm going to have to get done with this. i'm going to leave this behind the seat open. >> okay, that's all i can do is 3.5 out of four. so let me pass that back to you. [inaudible] >> certainly.

>> [inaudible] >> [inaudible] >> this is flight control loops and cameras taken in the mission operations control center. so again, you can see what was happening in real time from their viewpoint. >> everything look good to you? >> the control has been stable for what they have done so far. i do not see anything out of the ordinary. >> okay. >> colombia houston, we see your pressure messages.

>> [inaudible] >> [inaudible] >> flight information? flight information is it's not too bad. >> are their return information? >> no, there is not. they have also lost the nose gear and no talkback. >> i have four temperature

sensors that all say low. >> [inaudible] >> the systems were configured right before we lost data. everything looked good. >> columbia, houston, check. [inaudible]

>> [inaudible] >> colombia houston, com check? >> i would like to stay where we are at. i do believe it is implementation. >> okay. >> colombia houston? [inaudible]

>> i know that this data is a little late, i think we are in a smaller case tonight. in other words, we are not reporting any res at this time. >> okay. >> what are you expecting on tracking? >> one minute ago. >> colombia, houston, come check ? >> copy.

>> swap the strings in the wind. >> okay. command is over. >> [silence during video] >> [inaudible] >> flight commander extreme one in the blind. >> copy.

>> [silence during video] >> [silence during video] >> [silence during video] >> [silence during video]

>> [silence during video] >> [silence during video] >> tiki flight tran-eights lights, lock the doors.

[inaudible] >> we have a tracking? >> no, sir. >> [silence during video] >> [inaudible] >> we are acquiring false locks at this time. [inaudible]

>> can we continue to plan the procedure? 2.8 -- five. >> folks, listen up again. no phone calls, off-site, outside of this room. our discussions on the recorded loops. no data were transmissions into or out. >> we have no way of disabling the blackstone's. >> i understand.

>> flight, go ahead, sir. >> marty, can you confirm that the ddms folks have been mobilized? >> yes, they are seeing what they can do to help us. >> copy. >> so this is not an active sequence, but this is actually an amateur reconstruction that i thought was nicely done ,-com,-com ma where you synchronize the flight loop audio were many individual civilians were taking pictures. so again, a sequence of what was

known versus what was known on the inside. >> [inaudible] >> [inaudible] >> [inaudible]

fyi, i lost four separate temperature transmitters on the left side of the vehicle. >> that include systems to increase. >> okay, is there anything common to them? >> you're telling me that you lost them all at exactly the same time. >> they were in for five seconds of each other. >> where is that instrumentation located? >> all four of them are located in the left wing. there is no commonality. >> no commonality, okay.

[inaudible] >> all hydraulic systems? >> [inaudible] >> okay, i understand. >> copy? >> thank you.

>> thank you. >> [silence] >> [silence]

[inaudible conversations] >> again, i would like to say that this is hand-held camera pictures that were synchronized with the flight loop. some ground imagery. >> tc flight? >> does everything look good to you? control, rates, everything? >> the control has been stabilized through the roles that we have done so far. we have good trends, i don't see anything out of the ordinary. >> okay. [inaudible]

>> all other indications for your hydraulic system are good? >> we have good quantities all the way across. >> any other attempts? >> yes, sir, the other attempts are normal. >> when you are saying that you lost them -- >> yes, sir, all four are staggered and not scale. within several seconds of each other. >> okay. >> [silence] >> [inaudible] >> final flight. >> we have the balloon, it is being run through ddms right now >> we just lost tire pressure on

both tires. >> colombia, houston, we see your messages and we did not catch that. >> [inaudible] >> [silence] >> we are taking a few hits here, right on top of the tail, it is not too bad. >> [silence]

>> there is no commonality between the hydraulic return and instrumentations. >> no, sir, there is not. we have also lost the nose gear and they are not talking back. >> nose gear and down on talkback? >> yes, sir. >> i have four temperature sensors that osseo. >> and the three are the subtle engines, which are the heavier items of the vehicle traveling farther.

>> [silence] >> unchanged. >> what we have done is taken what i would call supervisory control over the investigation of this incident and we are now doing such things as the board is now controlling all the release of materials. this is material, for example, that needs to be sent back for refurbishment. material that didn't have anything to do with the incident that was impounded. we are on authority for the

release of material to be removed and the next time it is used. we have the beginnings we have a team of experts that have nothing to do with nasa, the function of that independent knossos team would be to advise the board. those elements -- those engineering and scientific elements, which in their opinion, in order for our conclusions and our report to hang together and stand on a solid base, they must be independently verified by a laboratory were university or some agency other nasa. we are aware that the congress of the united states is one our constituents. the white house and taxpayers and citizens of the country are all constituents of this board. we feel an obligation to all of them for a full disclosure.

>> of course we have operations with texas and louisiana. [inaudible] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] >> [silence] >> [silence]

>> [silence] >> i have looked at the columbia and the space program in general where we are going. what i mission means to us is a return to flight mission. i think our country has been strengthened by this, also. we are more and more looking forward to how can we make this work for us. how can we make this tragedy and the space program better, not just the shuttle program, but the space program in future of our country and the state. everyday when i drive to work, i

am reminded of the columbia crew, have reminders in my office and i want those reminders. while initially they were sad, i say that they are more strengthening and making me want to make more of a commitment to continue their legacy and their mission. >> i am still as committed as i always have been. my crew is trained and prepared and ready to fly. but i can't help but look at the 107 crew and i see reminders of them and certainly they were committed to the mission and how much they love their mission and each other and how well they work together as a team. they are role models for us. we can learn from them. just even carrying out the

mission. >> good morning. we have spoken about this but not for very long time. so we will try to do our best to give you our impressions of what happened immediately after and how those events led to what we would call a large success and the involvement of the debris, which allowed us to understand what happened. i told dave that we would do this. >> yes, that works for me. >> okay. as we have discussed, i had the

opportunity to get a call from bill just minutes after the accident. just prior to that i had moved from the kennedy space center and i had worked on the shuttle for 19 years and had been in the control room or on the runway for every launch and landing since 1983, really. it's a very different perspective for me. i was here for the launch of columbia and for landing i was at home, watching cnn, looking for another nominal landing, which we all expected. and then i saw the banter coming across the screen, saying that we lost contact with the space shuttle columbia and we knew that something right then was drastically wrong and i told my wife at the time that life just significantly changes. little did i know how much of a change for me and many of us in the coming months and years.

i got the call from bill after i had been making some calls to try to find out what everybody knew and was headed into the office and bill said that we would like for you to be the incident commander, if you will. the senior representative in texas. because that is where we believe the majority of the action is going to be and we need you to go find your friends and start finding the pieces and put it back together again. those are the words out of his mouth and within 10 minutes of the accident when he called me, i had a lot of interface with him and my other colleagues over the next few minutes and trying to get an airplane full of the right kinds of people and equipment and other things. and as michael alluded to earlier, we did not know where we were going to land, where the

predominance of the debris was going to be. we just did not know at the time. so once we took off, we got on the phone again talking to a lot of folks, looking at brown reports, situational reports and trying to decide where to go. one of the larger towns in east texas, pretty near where most of the debris that we found. everywhere from california to florida, people calling in and some of them were pieces of toast and all kinds of crazy things. but we had to synthesize all of that information and decide where to stand up a command post and some of these field offices and sites and sides and that was a very difficult thing to do. when i landed, we had a number of folks waiting for us there.

we had a share of. i am going through charts here that no one seemed to is seen by me. i have seen these before. [laughter] >> let me switch over there. anyway, we landed with the sheriff and other folks, secret service folks, the fbi, they ended up playing a large role in this event. they were stellar in every way as i can attest. we decided to stand up a command post in texas there in the civic center. it was a big open forum, basically a gym, we set up tables and put up labels and had people coming up to us, asking us, what can i do to help? that kind of thing. we organize the best we could. we had a lot of plans in place for this and we had no plan for

this kind of thing. we just have to make it up. we have a great group of folks. some of the reports in the way it is all handled, not so great in many cases, especially with respect to and for the crew and the way that was handled. we had a lot on our plate to try to get our arms around really quickly. unfortunately, jim weatherbee and others were there to start running a piece of the operation and i was there trying to get the right kind of people doing the right kinds of things and organizing them. i think the reason that they called me was because i had run a lot of stuff and knew a lot about the vehicle resolve and

how to handle some of the hazards that were out there. i have a lot of contacts and a lot of people who know a lot more than i did about those kinds of things. we started putting a team together to do this. it was multi-agency response, president bush issued emergency declarations for tech texas and louisiana as scott said. honestly some were more dense and different conditions for the rest of the vehicle, basically. we found those buried 10 or 12 feet deep in the mud. they hit the ground going pretty hard. an amazing fact is that nobody got injured on the ground. not through this whole thing. you can take what you will from not but it is pretty sparsely populated urban area and in this case, that was a good thing. fema was the lead agency.

obviously we stood up field offices to do different kinds of things and it was basically the ground operation. the other areas were more gathering of piece parts and those kinds of things. the fbi played a huge role in us, epa played a huge role. the u.s. force reservist, if it weren't for them, we never could have searched the areas that we did. and then the texas folks as well or just tremendous. i can't tell you enough about the job that everybody in the state of texas did for us. not only for us in our programs, but for us personally to bring comfort to us as we experienced some every difficult situations. difficulties early on, i had three different fema guys come up to me in the first eight hours and say that i am in charge. i said, that is great, i

appreciate that, but were you going to do and they really didn't know. so i said, why don't you let nasa take the lead and we will know what this vehicle is made of. we have a lot of folks we can get on the ground quickly and we would love to have you help us with that. we were kind of like to understand and we would like to take the lead in us. a couple of hours later, one came back and said i'm the one in charge. i said that is great. i called the nasa headquarters and asked for some help in about 30 minutes later i got a call from a guy and i wasn't able to answer the phone at the time, so i called him back. i called him back and the phone answer was the white house situation room. and i said that i needed to

speak to a specific person and he picked up the phone and within 10 minutes, one of the fema guys said we are here to help you. [laughter] >> we are really good at a lot of things. let me tell you what we're good at. so that is really later this worked out. the local nature of any operation like this is so important. the federal government brings huge resources. anything we needed, we could get. but the local knowledge and the department of public safety, which includes all of the rangers and everybody and all of the police, the state patrolman and in conjunction with the county folks in those areas, it was tremendous. having that local knowledge is so key to a recovery effort like this. that was the key. when we had the local coverage

there, we had more than 450 organizations responding. same here my resources, how can i help. so our job was to try to figure out how to utilize all of the vast resources across the country and the 25,000 people that were involved in this response and recovery effort. we will talk a little bit more about that. our operational goals were to ensure public safety and make sure no one was going to get hurt. and unexpended ordinance of some sort. we were out there getting the message out to the public very quickly. we will come get it, please do not get near it. obviously, doc and his team were a lot more focused on certain things than some of the rest of us. and recovery evidence, retrieving the evidence,

providing opportunity for the board and other investigative bodies to understand what really happened here. and then provide public assistance. a lot of folks were put out by the fact that this thing happen. a lot of folks were telling us that we killed their cows or whatever and we had to deal with a lot of that as well. obviously, the return to flight from the get-go. we had our mindset that we were going to put this back together and find out what happened. we had specifically with public safety, we mitigated the hazards and we established hotlines for people to common, that we could go pick up things. obviously the database piece was absolutely huge. trying to capture where we found everything and take pictures of it, the location, and how to

transport it and get it to where we needed to get it and those kinds of things. a large contingency came with that. epa and other organizations that came quickly to help us with assessing all of that. we have great knowledge to tell what the hazards were and deal with that. that is why we call this from kennedy. just coordinating all the efforts and the products that we need to be able to turn into information was just a huge undertaking. a lot of products and analysis, i'm sure that doc will talk a lot about that. figuring out what sensors we needed, how we would get done, and how we would synthesize that data into information as well. some of the pictures, i mean

there was debris everywhere. tanks and small pieces of everything. you can see that we had hazmat dealing with things. as i said earlier, the folks in the local area just dropped everything to come and help us. what a tremendous effort. it restored my faith to pull together in a tough time and made me realize that this was not my space program. they were just as proud of this program as i was at that the time, even having worked on it for 20 years. these folks were very proud of it. we are doing everything they can to help us. people just stopped everything to help us with this. recovery was accomplished within the first two weeks of the incident. a major effort, for instance, we were focused on that for a day or two. captain paul davis from the department of public safety came to me one day and said how can we help. and we said we really need help

searching for the fallen comrades. and he said, what can we do? and i said, well, we have the national guard. and he said somewhere between one and 2000, sir. we called out that effort rather quickly and that was huge to be able to have them on the ground. logistically it is very difficult to deal with all of this, especially in a broad and diverse area and you can imagine just trying to get people said is a very hard thing to do and we have made strides in doing that over the first couple of weeks. but for a while, many people struggled with it. the picture on the left here is a picture of one of the engines that we dug out, and you may not be able to see very well, if you

need to stand, please do so. phase one was obviously a collaboration of volunteer assets. as you know, there are liabilities associated with that, and we got concerned about that fairly quickly and try to minimize that. also wild land fire services assume with the grid search. they come in totally contained, they come in with all of the resources they need to sustain themselves, medical, everything, this was huge. because we did logistics ad hoc for the first two weeks when people were getting tired and we were dealing with the element. it was cold and there was snow and the whole 9 yards. these folks came in and we would not have been able to complete

this mission in the three months had it not been for those folks. they do this for a living. obviously, a large bear search and water search as well. you saw some of the video from folks walking through, and these are more pictures of folks. we had a lot of volunteers and it seemed to be a very good way to get a around the country. it was a collaborative effort by a lot of folks. you can see the bottom here. i think the people brought every piece of food from every store that you could imagine to this place. we had people that could not afford to bring food for folks working in that area. that was a very moving experience for us as well. in the upper right you can see the forest tree service as they

came in and made a huge difference. doing it in a much more comprehensive way. these are just the numbers, but we searched the area, the state of rhode island, for about three months. we surged about 10,000 acres per day. 2500 folks out there every single day. we had incident management teams and a lot of crews in the field every day. a very huge effort. it is more about the air search and surgeon making sure we were running people into each other to yes, one of the interesting tasks that i am seeing right away, davis is in

charge of the overall effort. so the air search has kind of been what we have looked at. besides the accident that we had, we have the potential for problems because everybody and their brother was coming to the area, whether it was flying through the area with an airplane or an army helicopter or anything. it was offered up for search. the first thing that we got, was to close down the airspace. obviously. and then try to coordinate all the different assets. and everybody offered everything. one of the things that we came to realize is that the helicopters were useful for getting people to places quickly because this is a remote and rural country. it was winter and miserable. it was undergrowth and one of

the problems was just getting on the scene. in the early days of the search, people reported things rapidly because stuff was everywhere. so we were rapidly trying to get people deployed to areas of interest because people were calling in things all over the place. then everybody and their brother had a sensor. we had some smart center engineers and basically i said before we start deploying these sensors, airships, uavs, gliders, ultralight, everybody showed up. and we said why don't you set up a test area with some of the degree and have them fly over blindly, take sensor data and you analyze them to see if they are even useful.

the absolute single best sensor for finding debris on the ground was the guys in the yellow jackets walking on the ground. the air sensors were pretty much basically useless. so basically became a ground search with air support. a lot of flight hours and we did lose a couple of folks in a helicopter. in another tragic day for us. we surged an awful lot these are some of the assets that were used, but you can see it was pretty wide-ranging group of things the eyes and ears in the best way to go about doing this kind of search. we also did water search. if you look at the picture, there is a large part of the

main engines that were found in louisiana. the lake was formed when a dammed up an area that was a very forest and hilly area and they have moved a lot of equipment into that area to divorce the area and get the trees out before they fill the lake up. the story that we got was they built the dam, they moved equipment, and then they had a flood. the crews were still there, the equipment was still there, and now there was a wait. so there was a bass fishing permit going on that morning and we have a lot of eyewitnesses. >> the accounts were to hear this huge racket, obviously the supersonic particles making shockwaves. there was a loud splash that capsized some of the small votes and it's my belief today that

the airlock is probably still there. the navy dive teams to search for a couple of months. i remember bringing out the brake assembly. it is about as far in front of their faces. it was one of the most hazard diving operations they have ever conducted. >> not a lot of shuttle debris. but we know there is probably a lot in there because there is a lot on the main pack. the very difficult operation for the navy divers. they were in there for a long time and recovered some things, but i am sure that there is still more there. >> here are some pictures from that. here is the sonar. the federal government has amazing assets, and i think we tried to employ as many as we could, but we also tried to be careful not to flood the areas with all of that.

the other interesting part of this and this was the first incident under the new dhs. which had just been formed a bit before. at the time, we believe it was the largest search in history. enter agency,, we were all amazing. we were in charge on this one for some reason. i think it was extremely helpful. ..

they told us if you find 10% of this vehicle, you'll be lucky to make on 45% of it and enough to put the pieces together and figure out what happened and i believe i was obviously huge key in understanding exactly what happened. we would've had a good idea but having the hardware is well appointed exactly what happened to help us get to the root cause. so as i said, 40 plus% of the weight of the vehicle, a good hit of which probably burned up

on the way back as well. 12,000 calls at 100 days. we had to handle all those calls and take information and follow up on every single one, which was a huge undertaking. these are the areas, the map is probably not very good for you to see, but the path on here, the purple line in yellow from dallas all the way into louisiana. 250-mile long stretch that we had to go look at and surge. predominately most of it was found in the temple area, we found a lot of later hardware further west and the more heavy hardware further east. you've seen pictures of this before, but this reconstruction i believe is the real key in helping us make progress on this. you'll see more of this later. i have the chart to give you perspective it took seven

months. the report came out in august. after the completion of the three months, i went back to marshall and quickly got engaged in trying to figure out what really happened and how we'll fix it and go play again, which is probably also a good thing. as we watch these videos today, it brings back some unbelievable emotions and memories and i think we were so busy that for a long time we didn't have the opportunity to process it. you compartmentalizing your mind. revert one and 22 hour days to recover the crew at that point we could take a breath and help get the rest of the investigation disclosed.

i'm sure other folks will cover this. use a lot of radar tracking data. he used an enormous amount of radar tracking data to understand where we should go look at where we would find what we are looking most predominately. by the recovery has succeeded i will talk about for just a minute. this is something near and dear to my heart and the new department of homeland security, white was difficult at times, that everybody tried to do what they thought was the right thing. people were trying to get along because they needed to. obviously there was a lot of emotion throughout this and so we had our squabbles, but overall everyone worked very, very hard. there were clearly articulated missions. the leadership team to give specific responsibilities to specific.

now we've got a better way of doing it in thank you for your help and send them underway. people gave enormous amounts of sacrifice. there weren't that many church struggles. we just kind of took command and did what we needed to do and where they were competing missions rehashes out and figured out what we're going to do and go do our part. sometimes you take a backseat, but simply disappeared powerful support for nasa and the space program. we are as transparent as we could need to be told folks everything we need to tell them and didn't try to hide anything. that is something nasa is maybe too good at, but we worked very hard at that. community generosity authority spoken of. there is really no ongoing

property threat. they convince folks early on that most of the things they would find the grammar dinner, but we did not see a cut on the ground after the first few days. with on the more critical things at that point. repeat explicit attention to the ground. we buy splay site awareness folks in leadership from the agency to talk to folks. we brought counselors and for folks to talk to a given times and we paid particular attention to the morale of the folks because doing this for two or three weeks at a time can really wear on you. we did have a lot of physical space. we had plenty of room. the real issue was we were spread out over counties training hardware, not little towns, but over counties as they

said over 250-mile stretch. we hope people accountable. which means in the morning and afternoon and everybody said their piece and we made decisions and moved on and everybody did a good job of being accountable, but we did not set a lot of rules in place. we had a little issue with multiple command centers. we work through that. that worked quite well as an. institutionalizing learning mechanisms you have to get people talking about, you're very clear communication. we also had to close the loop between the analysis collecting information in the analysis notes that we had telecoms daily. here's the information they have been here so we boycott the. that helped inform us on what to do or where to go.

i'll skip some of these, but we had formalization of management was imperative. by fema guys were good at some of that thing and we utilize them in a big way, but so were the state and local folks. a lot of training and they knew how to go about doing those things. just giving people authority and let them do the job was a real key. they had worked hard on relationships and creating unity and tightness across functions with key, especially in such an emotional time. we also learned information is usually wrong. you get a lot of data you have to ask yourself, is this really correct? directing information is from early on and you have to be

careful not to react to this kind of things. you have to embed technology. we had the best folks. you have to embed the technology, but you can't let people think it's about the technology be consenting to take knowledges think it's about technology and not your: object even had to keep reminding them cannot say some of the things before you put them in the field with key. we had to pull things out of people. sometimes people have a minority opinion and you have to ask why do you feel that way? you almost always find something from that. planning and training is imperative. although we didn't have a plan, we had a lot of people trained and that helped us enormous wave. this soft stuff is the hard stuff obviously working with the people. we'll have a common interest and it wasn't hard to build the

natures, but we did articulate the vision of what we were about doing and keep that message simple and that is to find the hardware, put it together and go play again and that's what we all rallied around in that kind of did it impact our ability to be successful. you always have the issue of understanding distinction train consent to send groupthink and we had some folks that were really good at joe saying let's have a real hurt conversation and decide where we're going to go and not with another aspect that helped us to be successful. that's the end of mine. you want to bring your set. [inaudible] >> this history sees.

>> i've always wanted to be scott horowitz for just a little while. >> it had a profound effect on all of us. it's an experience you that have gone and bush in many ways you never had, but you understand how it did affect you and what you did learn from it for the next two years, return to flight efforts in trying to implement recommendations and understanding how to implement technical authority in all of those things was tremendously difficult, but we kept her head down and we came out with a pretty good plan on how to do that employ a number of flights after successfully. >> dave and i go back a long way. when we first met you are working on columbia because it was my first right to space on sts 75 and you manage to get it to fly. so we go back a long way.

that morning i see morning mycenae pointed out, we'll look at things through different lens. i plan my morning run to come in before landing. i came in the door and was greeted at my wife pretty much in hysterics and her six-year-old daughter on the couch looking not to seem like many people across the country. it didn't take me long to realize this is a really bad day. i always kept a little bag for travel, grab it. we had plans in place. one of the things we learned from challenger was we had a good set of plans, not for this particular scenario, the plans across all the agency, on the centers and of course the first rule is for the astronauts to show up and report the contingency action center. right before i left, my daughter looked at me and big daddy,

ian's mom is on board the shuttle. is she okay? my daughter sat next to e. and clark in school i have to tell her, her mom is gone to heaven. daddy has to go to work. said that began the three weeks dave and i spent together. from the office perspective, our number one eject it was to recover fallen comrade and pay them respect they deserved, which is a pretty tall order given where we had to look in this scenario we were given. my first impression when i saw the picture with this wasn't going to be big issue because there'd be nothing left. you see something from space on the planes and there shouldn't be much left, a 40% was recovered by weight, which is an astonishing figure to me. as it turned out, the crew is

out there to be found and recovered and that pretty much consumed as for the first two weeks. you see a couple pictures i want to put in it for us here. the main search area, the main debris area with a 200 by 10-mile sloth from south of dallas fort worth area the louisiana area, where we congregated because most of the debris was there hemphill. at the fire and to put it in days, i've drawn the area eight miles square the size of washington d.c., which i affectionally referred to as the 64 square mile logic free zone. research grades were important. we had a lot of smart folks and a lot of us had operational experience. i look at this almost like a war

exercise. he had all the strips, people getting the operation in place going and one of the things we quickly realized is how to keep track of the mess. how you know where to send people, what are you looking for? we were looking at the crew, the rapidly was like we need to find the flight recorder. columbia was different than it had a recorder on board unlike the other orbiters. it's pretty obvious who would keep track of where we can. the series had this amazing craft and not capability. they brought in these huge printers, but i can't even imagine what they should must've been. they were at it every single day we came up with this scheme and third start with the alphabet and work through. [booing]

or vertically and numbered from one to make 200 the map and one-mile squares. i figured we could handle one-mile squares. with 7000 national guard troops are many any ethelbert asked to shoulder to shoulder to clear an area. to send helicopters out in icc from the great here and the labeling, we had air search and ground search, so we would have areas where it was open in a helicopter to fly over come and they could find seven spot does. it was underbrush, maybe the air search do a callback and say we can search this. it was high-priority we would get some the ground immediately. this is how we day today would work the assignment and go to the leaders of the troops say these are search areas for today. almost like this is your object given how we kept track of

everything. i thought it would share a couple little stories. it is interesting after we found return to crew and paid all the respect, every single signing with the company in by a blue suit or from the point where they found it to their final resting spot. it is a huge come a huge undertaking. i cannot think of folks at the fbi enough. they handled crime scenes as you probably know. their expertise in handling situations like this is second to none and they were huge amount of help and comfort going through this. about week three i came home for the weekend and it was my daughter's seventh birthday and we were driving somewhere and she looks and says the micro up i'm going to be an inventor. i said that's very interesting.

what are you going to invent? i'm going to invent two things. an airplane so we can go to paris in an hour. that's my girl. the second thing is i'm going to invent a bubble. what's your bubble going to do? well, fly the space shuttle and you can get in the bubble in case something bad happens and you can float down to earth. so she'd obviously been thinking about this a long time and i thought i was an interesting day of from a now 7-year-old. one of the get the debris, the thing that became interesting citizen usual what we found. something seat that would be strong and last in their pretty much disintegrated. something clicked the patch in the middle sitting in the field. checklists, cupboards, but every single tank was recovered.

the oxygen, hydrogen, nature shen. the bubble salsa diet. i just thought it was an interesting to from a 7-year-old at the bubble survived and maybe they could protect us. the silver lining to me was the people. first of all if you had a blue jacket you couldn't buy a meal anywhere. you just couldn't do it. this is a very rural non-extremist economically blessed. literally debris and everything was following in these people's backyards. so a couple of interesting stories i like to share it do just because you probably haven't heard these, we'd go out and talk to the troops in the evening. ridiculous morale building, part was to let them know what whereafter and help them understand that jack is and how

they help us and just to thank him. these people are basically deployed and living a healthy stack space in the wintertime spending all their days in evening searching miles and miles by foot. so i was talking to one of the first sergeant phinney said we were in this field today behind this lady's house and they would line up and start sweeping the field and if they came across something, they'd have one soldiers stand by the item until the surveyor could come. the one in every part surveyed, identified, that. fatima move on and the soldier would rejoin his true. they said this little lady comes marching down and she goes, are you the guy in charge? yes, i am. why is this guy standing here? he's watching until we can move.

why can he watch my back porch? he says he needs to stand here and watch this for us. she got a irritated and marched off inside why does he stand in the rain? he's a soldier, that's his job. so the soldier comes back to the truth and is carrying this bundle of pies and cakes and brad the lady has given him. another stories they went to one place and this older gentleman conference has had these guys have lunch at? he says now, we have a chow hall. he says i want to buy hamburgers. he says it's okay. now, i'm retired. and bind them all one should not

pay. so we made it as an hamburgers or whatever and settled the troops. so the people, and basically it was their space program. they were very proud, unbelievably supportive and restores your faith in humanity, the silver lining. support for the lessons we learned? from challenger the accident wasn't handled well from a planning perspective because we just aren't ready. contingency action plans were written. we went through the orbiter, looked at all the failures and did all of that procedures for training was improved. it is a huge amount of work and that carried us for 17 years. in colombia at the plants went into effect.

we didn't envision the scenario, but we had planned for my definition was to be something to from. the mobilization of her was much more organized. they came down, was in charge, people supported him. we have leadership, were organized of were organized of all everything wasn't perfect, the fact you had a basic organization gave you away to build up the tempo required. the lesson we learned was how to respond to the accident. the lesson we did not learn was how to prevent the accident. after a year of those favored a phenomenal report, the insightful in many levels and the office after the accident to return to flight which took a couple of years and also through the orbital space program is

kicked off in week three of the accident came to a conclusion that we would put out a position on astronaut and crew safety since that was our position. the lesson learned in the quote from the memo written by chief of the office to hear from later today was we had recommended the next rated system should have an abort system. we tried that crazy to put one on the shuttle. it wasn't possible because the design from the beginning did not think to incorporate it and adding something afterwards is basically impossible. but we wanted the next vehicle tissue to have a reliability of .99. this is the one in 1000 number you hear. people argue over the number.

on the order of one in 100, you can argue over the exact number, but that's what it is. in order of magnitude after 40 years of spaceflight with the one in 1000. still pretty good risk. just to put it in perspective, today around the world about 50,000 commercial airplanes will fly. if we had this huge improvement in safety, we'd have 500 accident today. said that just sort of put it in perspective how much this is. one in la paz as a mistake for spaceflight, but maybe not so big for a commercial operation like airline. so on february 1st we lost the crew. what did we learn? what did we forget, would agree on the?

decoder used to love is the first 50 miles in the last 50 miles out of her and one of my favorite quotes and people should read and he does the design of the system should give priority crew safety rather than trade safety against other performance criteria such as low cost from a usability upgrade seems based operation capabilities other than crew transferred. in my opinion i don't think true or words have ever been written. i will just send with this quote from the philosophers santiago. this he cannot the past are condemned. so those are my comments. i guess we have a few minutes for questions. thank you.

[inaudible] >> first of all, i want to congratulate david the team for the outstanding job they did. from the point of view of the cave, we had an opinion early on in the investigation that we were very likely to come to a conclusion, which was based on circumstantial evidence. where like the challenger of wonder what happened. they didn't know why, but it was likely that the shuttle just didn't return. and there is a possibility we

would never be able to point to a lot of certainty as to what happened. consequently, i'm grossly summarizing here. we embarked on five independent desiccation surpassed. and this is one of them. and it is our desire and hope that the results of all five independent paths at all point to the same thing and not different teams. so it was the issue of public safety had we had to pick the debris. but it is also enormously important to the investigation that this be done professionally and scientifically. it is enormously important to know which piece of debris landed where so they could determine what part of the shuttle came apart first in what part came apart later. so first of all, my comment was

this is enormously proud of the investigation and was really well done. the second comment i'll make it the very early on made a decision that the human remains part of this investigation was never going to be in the report come is going to be an independent piece of the organization. consequently, search for comrades not have to face tv cameras and they says there anything else. we're happy we made that decision. we were happy the way it turned out and what happened to the crew, not part of our report for nobody's business as far as i'm concerned except the families. so i have to questions that i think you should elaborate upon. question number one is the

recorder. that turned the investigation 90 degrees for us. those of us plodding along investigating things, a certain direction and following up on my history at this point in in this direction and when we found it's not really a flight recorder, but turn this 90 degrees, enormously important. so how about a stone and why and all that kind of stuff. the second thing is a later subject, as you saw from the video from the debris came off over california and nevada and was there any searching for that debris? >> it is extremely important obviously. dave had told us that we needed to search that.

part of how we knew where to start searching was we have of this radar information, this data. we do everything have a ballistic coefficient. so we kind of knew from the size and shape of things about where to look. also if he found the which it, you can say well if this is a heavier which it would be downstream. so we look back and searched several blocks extra hard and put boots on the ground and pretty much within a couple square miles, we know where to find it. i believe where we found it was right before the lake. if it it down a few hundred yards more, you may never have gotten that recorder. so we put a huge amount of effort and we were quite lucky we found it and it was in fairly good shape. i'll let dave talk about some of the calls and requests to search the rest of the country.

>> as i said earlier, we got enormous numbers of calls from california to florida. when you look at the radar data that we determined every game we have defined to be in a 2030-mile stretch. that's worth of most of of our effort. but we did follow up on those phone calls. we would have people talk the folks and look at what they had and have conversations and there's a lot of really funny stories associated with it, but we found virtually nothing outside that stretch from dallas to a cross state line into louisiana. as i said earlier, we had people that were reporting a piece of burnt toast that somebody at room at the back and thought it was a bird tile or whatever.

it's amazing to get those kinds of phone calls and go deal with them and it did provide a good looking or along the way. at the same time, it was a massive effort to follow up on all of them. i think it was 15,000 phone calls that we had, maybe 12 we had to follow up on. we followed up on every one of them. we found an enormous amount of debris. we were very lucky. those are really good day. we all breathed a sigh of relief and were hopeful sedated that came off would be helpful to you and your team. i want to take this opportunity to say that your team was amazing. when you look at the comprehensive nature of this report, we learned a lot and had to put a lot of things in place to return to a fight that made the program successful for the last little while and said

things are obviously true. you can have zero risk, but that knoblauch were about and that's not what he spacefaring nation is about. there is this enormous amount of antibodies that came out to anybody who had a concern about anything through all this and it took an enormous leadership challenge to get our folks through that frankly. everybody was playing back this video when they were trying to make decisions and that's good. it's good to have a experience in your head, but you can't let that drive every decision. mike griffin came in and set a tone for this agency that we are going to fly again and there's going to be risk associated with a commensurate with what you're report said that we had to work very, very hard to get beyond this both emotionally and

mentally and a lot of folks in this room participated in that complaint are trolls or not. that was the most difficult part for me, was how do you get the on the fear and go do this again and folks in this room and around the country say they will not. i'm thankful we found some other hardware that is important to folks. i believe the team we put together in recovering the crew and their effects is hugely important to the families of the crew and these guys did a great job of organizing employment together in doing it with the right respect and dignity. as scott said, every place we went to make a recovery, read the fbi there, clergy clergy dare, astronaut or an i think

that pervaded just the right amount of dignity we could provide while also getting the job done. >> all share another anecdotal study. i went to one of the recovery sites to which happened to be have decided this rural home and of course one of the things you may have noticed that we appreciate decision early on was there's no gory pictures showed up at the price. there were a couple ways we did this. one was every time i got a call to go to a site, i assembled a team can see the site was to the wise and the camera crews were everywhere. so i dissent someone out wearing a blue suit and a car with a team and i would send them and

all the press who chase them. then we send a real time with the fbi to the west. one day, one of the press groups, on. so i was going out to the site and a texas ranger, if you haven't met the texas rangers, they are big guys but that. the texas ranger comes up to me and sister, i press that followed us out here. what would you like me to do? i looked at the sixth of six texas ranger and i said ranger, i'd appreciate if you could escort them to the next county. he looked at me and said sir, it would be my pleasure. and he did. >> on numerous occasions these guys were amazing. he made it clear her desire to keep it this way and they went out of their way over and over again to help us. >> i cannot thank them enough

for the respect they paid in support we got. it really helps you a very difficult time. >> we have time for one more if there's any other interests. >> we must've dazzled by mike s. >> thank you. [applause]

>> congressional internet caucus at the race to prevent piracy on the internet. we'll hear from service providers from the media companies and advocates for internet users. this is an hour and a half. >> welcome, everybody. thank you for coming. this event is hosted by the congressional internet caucus advisory committee. we do a brief and once a month on internet related issues. it is a nonpartisan and bipartisan fair and balanced organization that holds discussions on important policy issues before the united states congress that relate directly to the internet. ran into similar to man the

executive to her a bit of housekeeping fixate on friday, march 15 we have another refinance cybersecurity called the cybersecurity bite his executive order, will congress make the next move? will do with issues on a daily basis and reaction to the white house cybersecurity order. today's event is combating piracy online, a voluntary approach. you have to follow the conversation on twitter vera copyright alert, cingular not plural. today's event is designed to explore a system being rolled out across the nation through the isps which started last week. we thought it would be timely for folks in congress and in the policies fair to learn more about how it goes up, so we tried to get the group putting this together with the advisory board of advocates consulting to explain what the system is, how

it relates to policy in general and the impact on members coming constituents in districts in which they live. so we have a lot of folks, almost like a wedding banquet table to get through. i'll quickly introduce everybody as quick as i can. i'll hand it to the executive director of center for copyright information, joe lester and that will end up with the advisory board providing comments on how they interface with the project and then we'll do some q&a and questions ready. this is just starting and is a timely opportunity. quickly to my right is jill lesser for a center for copyright information. chill started her career working on civil liberties issues, baiter for aol, working on all technology issues including

copyright. to her right is a quaint east of missing chair, but she's on her way is marianne grant and chill gives a presentation. she has an interesting job there and works on i.t. issues and kind of interfaces globally how my relationship with isps across the world. next to mary and is thomas dailey, went to the finest law school in boston and has been with the company for many, many years. mitch glazier is executive vice president and has served on the senate judiciary committee and also in the house and intellectual property issues back in the 90s. to his right is brent olson from at&t. great runner. his locker at the federal communications commission. and if they make a point for the last three speakers on the

table, certainly not least are the advisory board and were going to start to consult on this project and starting at the beginning is jerry berman, chaired the congressional internet caucus, so he is my boss. jerry was founder person or democracy intact elegy. before that was director at the frontier foundation and before that was chief counsel for the aclu. there's a lot of privacy issues and property issues including the electronic communications act of 1986. to his right as the executive or a public knowledge on intellectual property issues and internet freedom issues for many years. to her right is jules polonetsky, cochair of the future of privacy forum. jules before that was with aol

as their chief privacy officer and has a long history of working on privacy related issues. so with that said, i would like to hand it off to jill lesser. idea mark >> okay, now it's on. i don't work for a technology organization so i have no idea how technology works. hello, everyone and thanks for having us. when tim and i talked about doing a briefing like this, we did not know was going to be coincident with our implementation. so we're actually arriving in front of you in real time, just on the heels of the culmination of 18 months of work in the

implementation phase of the copyright of their system before that, several colleagues were involved in a multiyear negotiation. as many of you know, these issues have historically not let themselves to voluntary cooperative discussions or agreements and this has been an unbelievable ride in a groundbreaking experience. we will take you through the nuts and bolts and lots of you i'm sure have questions and comments about happy to take them afterwards. for sort of stuck with the technology appear, so i'm running two computers. i apologize in advance. just to give you background, center for copyright was formed in 2011 by a memorandum of understanding that the parties to the memorandum were representatives of the major content industry and the largest internet service providers in the country.

it represented the first time these entities came together to do with ever increasing and large problem for digital piracy. cci was set up as an organization to work with old-school both spoke constituencies including advisory board and other interested parties to implement the copyright alert system. we really have to goals as an organization and through the alert system itself. one is to educate consumers about copyright protection and the use that language, which is typical policy language, but we really are trying to crack the code in terms of getting to consumers. copyrights to all of those who engage in these discussions and policy discussions for a living i think take for granted

copyright is a concept people understand and from our research of the work we've done really is a confusing and combating topic to a lot of people. so having a successful effort in reaching people and educating them and getting them to appreciate the importance of creative work is something that is the primary goal of our center. the second and perhaps equally important goal is to bring to life and connect consumers to the multiple ways of enjoying copyrighted content, digital content legally. that is not always been the case. there's been a variety of different options and price points, variety of formats. some people want to buy, someone to rent, someone content for free and there's many options out there. mary and those consumers with

what's available is another key goal of the center for copyright information. our primary vehicle in getting people's attention around these issues is the copyright alert system. i wanted to put up on the screen just so you know precisely at the moment, the five largest isps and then the movie and music industries represented primarily by the association of america, but also the independent film and television alliance in the association is the. so inde independent and studio related producers. i apologize for that. so they ever really began in 2007 and at that time, there was

a lot of mistrust. there were a lot of different people at a table and some of those folks can talk about how difficult the process was in the beginning, but there was involvement by key consumer groups and government entities to unpack the problem and how you escape to a voluntary solution that would work. the second game is there was an understanding that in the realm of digital piracy, the parties around the table could focus on peer-to-peer piracy. and that is not the sum total is everybody here knows of the digital piracy problem, but it is the area where these parties can start to show in africa and progress in getting people to change their behavior.

i guess the last thing i would say on this site is we really do hope to change attitudes. so there has been a lot of attention to this effort and a lot of claims about the fact that it may shut down someone's internet are the two bad results. but the goal here is education, not punishment. i can't emphasize that enough, but hopefully will become clearer as they move through the presentation.

how about this -- how about if i just continue to advocate the screen back, we will. so years that the copyright alert system works. it makes consumers aware of possible illegal activity over peer-to-peer networks using their accounts. there are three types of alerts that a consumer could get over the course of several stages. they're all educational, but there's different phases. it's purely one-way, peerless educational. the second phase is in the knowledge of an alert and that really is what it sounds like. it is educational, or requires the consumer to acknowledge the receipt of the alert. since that is being delivered by e-mail and just being one day, will require some level of conversation between a user or

an isp. this doesn't calm at stage three, the four, five or six or what we call a mitigation alert. the best way to describe a mitigation alert if somebody saying i sent you for a five alerts and if it weren't done or taken no steps to stop piracy over your internet connection and therefore, we really want to make it clear that we mean business and so there is some consequences attached to this medication alerts. one of the things we want to accomplish is to educate consumers how they can prevent the activity from happening again. it is and always case that people engage intentionally and copyright infringement. lots of folks might have a peer-to-peer system on their computer and they think they stopped using it, but they haven't realized they're continuing to share copyrighted

content. it is possible that someone who's not the primary account holder and their household is using the account and engaging in behaviors. so there's lots of consumers who receive these notices and have not been engaging in behavior actively and are really willing to understand how they can change that behavior. that may include securing wireless. and may include make sure they talk to their teenagers. a variety of steps taken over there and her net connection. i am happy to go through in more detail the way the system works, but as an overview, that's probably enough detail. let me give you some key facts. we started, up with these facts because we've had a number of conversations with folks over the last 18 months and he said

he thinks people are most interested in understanding. the first is residential wireline broadband internet accounts in the alerts are sent to the primary account holders. this is primarily going to affect residential account holders. secondly that we will go into more detail, we will go through to elegy in a minute. there was no isp monitoring of subscriber and aromatic dignity and the content owners are identifying instances of piracy, passing notices onto isps or relationship with with their customer and send the alert to their customers. so information does not go back to the content owner or who it prescriber is. the third point is married with

the second point, which is we really spend a lot of time building elements to protect consumer privacy and feel very committed to that and will continue to watch and monitor and make sure the system does indeed accomplish those goals. fourth, the copyright alert system does not require a subscriber's account. i think this bears repeating. i don't actually repeat it, but this has been a piece of misinformation and concern that has swirled around this program since it was announced, with the intention to implement was announced and there has been some confusion i cannot say this strongly enough. first of all, termination comes with a punitive system than it felt to run education. fifth, the website is intended to help people find local

content. i talked about this earlier. i encourage everyone to go to her website. for those of you who went to the website prior to implementation, it looked different and have a different focus than was intended for a different audience. we spent a lot of time over the last several months talking to consumers at learning the best way we can give them this information. what you're seeing now with the site is a consumer oriented set of materials and i hope to build a show this today, but unfortunately technologically we can't do it in this room. but there are several videos created, very, very short intended to help consumers who don't want a return material, understand the system, what their rights are an independent review and how the process works. i commend this to you.

the next point is that the infringing activity stops, the alert stops. we are hopeful people will get one alert and that will be it. so the notion we will send people multiple alerts if there's no subsequent instances of infringing behavior, it's just not true. it's a pretty simple system if you take the steps necessary, you will get another one. once a consumer has received two medication alerts, this is also an important point and once again emphasizes the educational nature of the system. we are intending to address the vast majority of internet users who we believe are either engaging as behavior and effort

late for the implications there is a legal nature. we are hopeful, which is way we've invested so much time and energy that most people change their behavior. if we get to a situation where people got six alerts, and they continue to engage in digital piracy, clearly the program is not reaching them it will take the resources we have an address alerts to other people. clearly there's not an unlimited number of alerts sent out a want this to be targeted to people who respond to it. finally, the accounts in the system are not the accounts used to provide public wi-fi. so i can't emphasize enough the points about no termination, there has been a concern

expressed that his businesses providing hotspots get these alerts, they'll shut this hotspots down and the accounts part of this program are not where businesses are providing hotspots. i wanted to make that clear. the next part of the system, so once you gone through the program and are presented with a mitigation alert, the first time you get a consequence, you are given the opportunity to challenge the alerts you received. the notion here is if we are going to have a system that is a voluntary system, we want to have one that is independent, mutual and consumers can easily use. we spent most of the last year built in the administered by the association that will assign neutral arbitrators.

there's a lot more detail about the process on our website. but before a user would be put through a mitigation measure, though a 14 days to file a challenge. they will pay $35. that will be refunded if they have a challenge. for several reasons built into the system. for example my isp misidentified an account or someone else was using my wireless are some of the reasons that might lead to a successful challenge by a user. ..

we are going to be collecting aggregated data to evaluate the efficacy of the program and the best way to report that data to the public. it is difficult to know because we are just rolling out what the timeframe for that will be. i think importantly, we want to be transparent and we want to let people know how the program is working we will be looking at

the delivery of alerts themselves as well is the appeal process. so there will be a lot of information that we take in and vandalize and make it available. finally before i turned turn it over to marianne, i do want to say that this has been a very collaborative process there are people who come with many years of experience, privacy, intellectual issues come and i think it has helped us get to this place that is really fair.

>> i will turn it over to marianne. [inaudible conversations] >> go to decide and use that microphone. [inaudible conversations] >> it's really hard to do this. it's like i have eyes in the back of my head. [laughter]

[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> thank you very much. >> we have identified and verified the cases which allow us to explore this. and i hope that in doing so, i will take some of the mystery out of this. our intent is to make sure that

we can take this into context and then go through the process itself. as we get to move towards the end, there is time to ask questions. we are going to review the methodology and the music industry uses very similar methodology. as i go, i will explain between we look at the contact. >> mostar contents is most of our contents is based upon the bit challenges.

so for film and television, it is by far the best way to get your interest in that. there are other kinds as well. we have scanning vendors and technology vendors and we generate the nation's cases. i will show you how that works eventuate. the ip address is obviously going to match the ip to the subscriber address and then send them to those accounts in those instances. we want to be sure that everything is supported by robust communications and make sure that somebody cannot come from left field.

we want to be sure that when we go find this out, if they find something that might be piracy and it could be, by the information we are providing. so the name of the movie or the track, i am not sufficient, there other things that are unique about the files. the rate that we have done this is get evidence in every case and those independent review

people can look at the evidence for the notices that we send. we want to make sure that the ip address, the computer that is distributing a file, actually it's pretty evidence is going to help us with that. but it is not just as simple as a file being advertised as lincoln and somebody sharing it. [inaudible] >> this diagram is an overview of the process. i will dig into this with a little bit more detail.

on one side is the ip address side and the other is the infringer and the content. we are going to see far more cases than we are actually going to act on. it is exactly like the peer-to-peer network. there are two different differences. the evidence is there for

anybody to see who is using it. but require it to be saved in a way that everything is balanced. i will walk through the content side of the equation in the case of television and music, the vendor goes into the network without list. it could be current releases and popular stuff. so you can imagine and some of the things happen with music. once in a while there will be something that escapes before its release. typically things will be in the

list for the lifespan. in our cases and one gets the dvd. if the file has not been seen before, i'm going to walk you through track one and track two. the point is that we do something very different the first time from what we would see going on. okay, let me now address the situation of the files. the vendor is actually downloading the content. they are going to generate the hash value the value is what i

think is the dna of the digital file. so even a word document or excel spreadsheet would have a value. you get it from the file itself. so the hash values are unique to those files. we do not take on trust for those that are advertised in the network. when you are in a peer-to-peer network on ec ip addresses and etc. we generated every time. they go and check their databases and if they have not seen not hash before, they know it is new whether it is an

entire album or track. in the case of television and movies, they basically water. it's a 9-year-old process which is supplemented by tools. they have looked at that contents make sure that it's not like a child's birthday party in the middle of it. were they hash out different bits and pieces. everything about it gets recorded and if it is a copy of lincoln or an episode, of some tv show, that would be something that we would send a notice on. we want to see everything about

it and we also are going to record things like what went across the screen, like something recorded in a movie theater. that actually helps -- we are going to do this religiously. this is a similar process, except with it is easy to do fingerprinting tools and to do the validation with this kind of manual supplement. we rely on people for support. you can imagine that we have

this copy that was maybe recorded and it has things on the screen and not entire copy is everything we know about that file. so now we are back in the network and we see another instance and this time we have a match. in some court cases, we have gone to court for an entire movie and then we have gone to court with bits that have been collected in the process and show how they will overlay. so absolutely proves that it was the same file that was being distributed. so the values are important to us and we do also depend upon

other things. sometimes our members will provide us with good or bad content. an example of that is when michael jackson "this is it" was coming out. we were provided with a number of bad copies, if you would like. confirmations that these were needing to be stopped. so now i'm going to go down the other side of the equation, which is the ip address side. i mention that i was going to show you a picture, this is just one example of the peer-to-peer network and what it looks like if you're out there. those are the list of ip addresses. next to it is the type of

software that the addresses using and i'm going to come back to that in a second. the first validation is to make sure that is it or is it not interesting for this program. so the next point is to try to communicate. the study was done about some

printers that send notices for films. as you can see next to the first blue thing, and names like peer-to-peer software names that people use to share files. it is analogous to different languages like french and belgian or something. they basically all be the same thing, they speak french. they speak to it in that dialect. if they don't get an answer back in that language, go onto the

next one. you can imagine we are dropping people as we go. it is a complete handshake point. even if we receive content that is verified to be infringing, including the ip address that we are actually going to send that notice.

the evidence package is something else we are going to create and that has a lot of different information in it. i am not going to take time to walk through that in detail with you. it has an overview of the transaction which has timestamp every piece of it. this is like tracking the process and we get details of the actual communication between the two computers. we captured the actual data. we also talk about the actual contact, whether it is the one we read the first time or the

peace of the movie that we get in subsequent times, we get that as well. it also is a process that was not a valid copy of television content or movie or etc. that ends up being several megabytes of assize file. which again can be presented for the independent independent review, if they want to go and support every case and have evidence for that. what the isp does, when it receives a notice is to take the ip address information in the date and time information. the date and time is important. it is when we knew for sure that the date and time is represented. so that is one the isp would be sending the notions to be a

subscriber that was connected to the ip at that time. it subscribed to a grace period. and the isp would hold that notice in case it's needed later. >> i want to make sure that we have enough time for jerry berman to speak and get your questions. >> i would just ask if my colleagues would like to say things and then ask questions to the advisory board.

>> how about you talk about how you feel going forward? >> thank you. thank you, tim. i really appreciate this and it's very kind of you to set me up for a long speech. but i really want to be brief. we are in a very contentious state. all of the people want an industry with open internet and open democratic we have to find

a middle ground to protect i wanted to innovate and make a living and create. as part of the first amendment and free expression. what was exciting about this program is it is a very

different step and it was done and thought about it before it got out of the way. it was not in response to what many people are doing differently. this came along about the same time and moving in a different direction than trying to lock down. we need a dialogue with the isp and the content industry and policymakers and consumers of public industry community. this is at least the basis of that in kicking the tires of

this, they were not creating a privacy nightmare and that they were going through a lot of diagnostics going to ip addresses. three strikes is a misnomer. it strikes -- i mean, three strikes was a year out. this is fixed notices that may escalate.

would you please stop and there are other ways to get this. they want to have self-respect and dignity and be responsible to others. they have to know that there are standards that they have to meet and they have to confront the fact that they may be doing something which they shouldn't. and a lot of consumers when confronted will say that i will stop. the hope of this program is to

convince a good number of consumers not to do what they are doing. we have a lot of data from the isp about how it's working and so i think really it would be helpful to give it a chance and a disservice to surround it with hot rhetoric and mislead people in order to bring it down.

that is just not. >> as has been said, you can take pretty hard. did anything fall off the charts? anyhow capture that type of thing? [laughter] >> i just want to say welcome to everybody. ..

there will be some false positives. i'm hoping not many, but that's the nature of any system that this type. we have to determine that some point, is the benefit versus the cost? i certainly think at the outset is worth giving assist in the chance. it is now launched, thank god, the six to 10 leading up to it was a long way, let's put it that way. one of the reasons was the companies were trying to do it right and trying to do it in

concert. that being said, people are going to start getting the alerts and we'll see what happens. i am on the sport to help fine tune it. i think at the beginning, we decided right away, the first hubcap to become letters with some of the rhetoric around what should be set in the warnings to people. the consumer advisory board was very clear with the board and show that this couldn't be a wagging finger type situation, that was not going to work and if we were talking about education, and had to be inaccuracies, you're a pirate, you're doing the wrong thing. it's got to be along the lines of we believe somebody is using your internet connection to illegally download. here's some alternatives.

here's where you go if you don't believe you're doing so. so what good chance of educative approach rather than we see you would know you're bad. that's the only hubcap that came loose. that's not entirely sure if you see the think secret about. the other thing i've been urging us for the cci to be as transparent as possible. i'm going to continue to urge them to do that. it's a very good start. in fact, it would be great to have your presentation videotaped and put up on the website. i think that would really help. a lot of the noisy here in the month coming up to the launch last week were people spinning conspiracy theories because without we were supposed to be. i'm also excited about the data collection and presentation of how this thing is working. i'm sure most of you have not

read the 36 or 40 page memorandum of understanding. if you have an hour or two at nothing to do, go ahead and read it because it requires a collection of how many people get to each alert stage, how many people go through the appeals process, how many people went to lose on what ground. i think it would be valuable in determining whether systems like this work. and by the way, other voluntary agreements hatched as we speak our credit card companies. this is the voluntary system between content industry. the data can be very valuable and i look forward to that because what were going to found i hope what will find us after people get the first or second

notice, they stop what they're doing. this is not going to get to the heart care folks who say, screw the movie studio, the recording industry. i can't say i'm saying this on c-span. i don't care if beyoncé goes bankrupt. but that not what the system is about. based on the fact they don't think it's going to stuff the hard cores, great, congratulations. you're absolutely right. let's see how it goes. i'm presenting myself as a person who people can talk to, complain to, give compliments to if they think the system is working or not working. i do see myself as a consumer advocate, a difficult balance can americanization its position on a lot of issues. but were willing to give it a whirl and see how it goes.

>> at the end, not the least of which with regard to privacy and privacy work in the past, i question if you code this address people out there if they're worried about privacy, i know marion address that, but if you could give your is a privacy leader and advocate. >> i have a number of different hot in the state legislature, congressional staffer, but the role i put on a focused most what we did our reviews was the chief privacy officer. the one thing i've learned his good intentions and policies only go so far when it comes to privacy. to the extent you design a system so it does work the way you can tend to do come coming minimize mistakes. what i liked initially about the system and then i will share the info we provided that help to

its cooperation until in the team, even had some positive elements to it. at the outset we initially had none for serial system, where people's names and identities through the course of litigation were disclosed. here is that a system in many ways very different. the information is not disclosed. the information is to the content providers. i think we're able to help enhance that we wanted to make sure when somebody did appeal may download some content they might not want to be publicly associated with more comfortable about calling up in appealing in vain i downloaded this particular content and now i'd like to appeal and perhaps be deterred because they didn't want to be publicly associated

or even non-publicly associated with that. they say why can't people appeal with an account number or registration number for the lake and they may have it pay a fee to file that appeal does not need to be part of the appeal process. the reviewer needs to know this is somebody has a file handed over to mean and so, to change that we were there early enough to provide that input and review into the process and we were delighted folks work to tweet and make that change and enhance the design. overall i hope will continue to play on these issues once the system is out there, a product or services and find out what was in intent and can you continue to tweet.

we've done a pretty good job in the team has done a good job of privacy by design and they've got a pretty good situation for the consumer. >> i think the good folks from c-span would enjoy diffuse the microphone. one question for tom and for brent is this thing is rolling out right now in real time, how many people get notices in the first several weeks, number one. number two, the two different i use, the different and if you could give me some of the differences between the different programs from verizon to at&t and i secant beat for comcast or time warner cable. but they're just an idea of that. >> thanks, tim. first i just want to echo the

comments you've heard already from our advisory board members because we on the board appreciate their involved in it, their participation throughout in jerry's comments about were going, what were trying to do are absolutely true. and gigi's comments about transparency are important as well. i want everyone to know that we take their input very seriously and over the course of time almost five years ago to this none that this whole process started and it's been a long time coming and the isps and content owners have worked long and hard to try and develop a system we think will work. all the things jerry was saying about focus on education, trying to correct behavior where it can be corrected. ultimately what gigi said is absolutely right. if you're hard-core and printer you want stop because of this

program. i was one of the important reflections we thought about and came to realize was practical reality, but we can hopefully make a dent. for those people in this audience, a lot of people at home, if you had something is going on on your internet connection can you may want to stop and we hope you will. if you don't know what's going on, you won't want to stop it. the notices are designed to do that. it's a process innocent they could speak to a verizon system. track b. to at&t and the nyu as was mentioned earlier does describe the process in more detail. verizon, what we have is three tiers. the first to notice is you'll from us will be via e-mail. we will send them to gain addresses we have on record for

you. each notice will be spaced out by a week. we still would only send you one notice per week. so the first two e-mails if we still continue to receive notices after those first two, a third notice will be in the form of what we call in the knowledge meant, which would be effectively an interstitial popular page on your computer. you have the keys to the popular page by clicking an acknowledgment, indicating you received the knowledge meant and notice. we're not asking you to give you that you infringe but to have received the notice. once you click on that, there's a video that we produce to do a little more education and you're out of the water and air services reese toward. but this notice is what it

really is is i think of it as an enhanced form notice. what is designed to do and the reason we have these three tiers as we know that e-mail alone is not 100% effective. we have the second tier, the acknowledgment phase in the third tier, which is that verizon will give you the option. you can either choose to challenge the notice you perceive if you notice he received an error or we will initiate a bandwidth slowdown. on the fifth notice, it will be for today's peter bandwidth will be slowed down to 256 k. and a sixth notice will be slowed down to three days to the same speed. the idea is to give you enough bandwidth so applications like voip would work. to get people's attention. we all know there's kids in the house that can eat mom and dad

to the e-mail for the acknowledgment page. we want to make sure somebody responsible would get the notice and realize something is going on and hopefully make the decision to remove the software and stop the infringement activities. that's the way the process that verizon will work. after the sixth notice that comes through, that the end of the program. no further vindication or anything like that. that's how we're handling it. we did a posting on her website. i did a blog posting on a policy page and hopefully we'll have good success with the program. >> thanks, tom. at&t -- let me step back for a second. and like to echo what tom said about a process and go back to

the beginning as jill and others have been saying, there's some anticipation about this beginning several months ago. but all the delays that we call them that they were to happen were really the result of people trying to be cautious and to do this the right way and take into account the consideration of the advisory board, to learn from each other, listen to other stakeholders, but to work internally with folks on our teams to get these up and running. i would just like to acknowledge the folks at verizon and cable companies come and want involved with at&t and operational side that did a lot of great work here. what it ultimately requires is a lot of systems work. but the amount you set up as a template or structure that we

are all following verizon and at&t, comcast and time warner cable, yet it allows us to make tweaks or implementations of that structure to fit with our systems. at the end of the day come the want this as automated as possible, but also as reliable as possible, so it takes work to rid of it from the content owners to pass that through your system with reliability scalability and the like. having said that, our system is a lot like verizon in terms of the stages any faith to say all the isps are following the three stages tom described in the structure. what's unique about at&t is i would say that the mitigation thomas describing, what we would

be doing at that stage, as tom described we expect and hope the vast majority of our customers will never reach that stage, nor will they receive these notices. that is something to be mindful of. if they reached this stage, what will happen is their browser will be redirected to an online portal and will go through a series of content that educate them about online and the like. once they've completed that portal come in the browser redirect will seize and the internet service will work as normal. automatically they should be no need to call a customer care representative. i will emphasize that the key here is for educational

component. it's not just education. it's really to empower them to make decisions. we are giving them information. we are telling them what copyright is, the differences between lawfully and unlawfully available content on the internet. in talking to things about securing their router and other things like that. it's up to the customer to choose what to do and what not to do. we're trying to impose a penalty in changing the mindset. as anyone side, this is not going to affect those folks that are dedicated to doing this, but there's a lot of evidence and mary ann can talk about that, a lot of evidence suggests this confusion out there and

especially with the younger kids and teenagers on the lake who experience an group of the internet. this is really about opening their eyes and letting them understand exactly what's going on. we hope that's where the program takes people and obviously at the very beginning stages. and the month coming up we should have more to share. >> i have some from twitter, but everyone so patient in the audience. please identify who you are and if you could direct the question it would be helpful too. >> have an intern at verizon and university of colorado. i haven't done a lot of research

on systems, but the system to bypass what you put in place so in terms of a handshake if they're not in the same language, and they stop replying, is there a way to incorporate that in the system you build and how you advised your system is such navigation tools to commonplace. >> that's a good question. the fact disaster or ways to ways to avoid this of course. nothing is ever going to be perfect. we do rely on the technology changes, but again, this is about reaching the bulk of people who aren't going to bother to do funny stuff and who would appreciate having a straightforward message. so are not going to catch everybody. are not going to find every case, but we do know who will

find a number and it will make a difference and that is where focuses on this. >> one stanford telecommunications course. i missed the last sentence of your presentation. does the information gets forwarded to users? and if so, what kind of information would be helpful in figuring out if they're not aware it's going on? >> said the notion we send includes what i call a method in summary. so it's not that it multimegabyte file. it does include dates and times, the filename, does include how the cases verified by an automated verification and so on. most of our isps are providing it.

that to the subscriber and they provide a way a subscriber can go to the whole notice to see everything we provided. over at sending pages and pages on the first shot. if that isn't sufficient again, the package is also bearing be accessed by the independent reviewer or the isp who might want more background. once people understand the process, they will know that file is sitting back there and should be sufficient. >> peer-to-peer site that they exchange information with other software and computer? >> it doesn't include the site because if you went all the way through the backdoor, you could eventually figure that out. but it does include details of the actual sharing and the dates and times. we don't know where the file originally came from. but we do it to someone who has

the file, distributed. where they got it in the first place the day before for work before but not necessarily knowo comment -- yeah, i'm just goingn terms of the isp provided to customers, there is information on how to check to see if there's peer-to-peer software on your computer and how to secure your connection, too. i think there's similar links, copyright information website -- but in a plug forhe website. we don't want to leave people without anywhere to go. part of the idea is to teach them how to look for it and tell them more about what they can do to address it. >> iconic carrie russell from the american library

association. after the six mitigation notice, then what happens? i mean, do you do anymore after that or do you just ignore that%? >> a sickly as a number of us have set, the program is intended to be educational. after the second mitigation a letter in the second time someone's been mitigated, the assumption is they are not being educated under this program. the system that ends at that point for that person. >> and the rights holder can make a decision whether to take down a request or something like that? >> is a peer-to-peer issue is a slight distinction, but the rights holder can then decide whether or not to pursue other legal options. the cover alert system is voluntary and does not affect the legal rights and obligations of the content owner.

>> just one point of clarification on that. as has been explained throughout the session, at no point in time do they give over any identifiable information to the content owners. so to the extent they pursue other means, they still need to go through the normal course of a court order in the lake to get that information out there. it can't be emphasized enough that the steps we take them with the advice of the advisory board to maintain the strict privacy rules and make sure we never disclose that information as part of the program. >> chris martin with access partnership. were consultancy firm. in terms of either validating

infringing, is that something you look forward to see that there are no more ip address itself not being used again and again from the validation side? and a broader question is do it for much except success, it seems each isp is going to run about in terms of what types of pressure to put on the users. do you envision trying to identify which ones are more successful over the course of the time? and perhaps honing the program to a set of best practices in that space on the side? thinks. >> let me answer the first question. embedded in your question is this notion that some continuing monitoring of a particular account or ip address. the system doesn't work that way. it works as mary ann described incident by incident.

so if a user gets a second request, it is because the scanning vendor is looking for probably another title, the same ip address emerged in the same process has gone through to identify which isp went with the address on the alert was generated. there isn't an ongoing dossier or collection about a particular user on the content side for the isp side and that's an important point. i am happy to have -- >> that's a terrific question and i for one hope and expect that will be involved in some valuation down the road when there's more aggregate data so you can look in more granularity that different approaches at each isp with is within tpamete.

they all have their varins. er success ratele to see whether with one kind of messaging versus another, how many appeals are being filed in one reqsts on number and their parents and people who don't understand what's going on and look at notice is that information on the wsi think that feed back loop would beimportant. so i think that without getting into anyone's privacy, the aggregate data could be a rich and yield some important lessons about how to include the program. >> the notion of best practices

is very much invoke with regard to the relationship between intermediaries in the content industry. as i mentioned before when i spoke, there's 30 best practices with regard to financial us to schantz in so-called rogue websites. there's not a process right now with regard to ad networks. i definitely think there's an opportunity both individually and aggregate to fine tune a system of do what works best. i also want to emphasize the best part says shouldn't just go to the intermediaries. the content industry has to figure out what is best practices are, not only for determining when they're going to enforce copyrights, but helpful notify people, for example, have you notify people you own the copyright.

best practices are a really good way to go. and not just one half of the equation. >> one question i asked and shall mention whole program only serves to residential users. commercial wi-fi networks. the question i was asked to asked is what those folks just kind of go to commercial wi-fi vendors? then there's efficacy. will it be effective if they have other options to go to other commercial wi-fi providers like mcdonald's or starbucks or other places like isps not associated with the program. >> i guess i would say this, which goes back to the function of the program, which is most